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Full Video Transcript

but when you race like you want to kick your teammate’s butt you know like you’re not gonna like hey Parker go ahead of me you know you had a bit of week no like you know krina you try to kill Parker in a race you know or you

Cory McGee Six-time NCAA All American (Florida)

know beat him or Ellie do not let Emily beat you in a 1500 or Emily don’t let

Liz Costello Four-time NCAA All American (Princeton/Tennessee)

Ellie be you you know you guys race to the death you know but um but other you know except for when we’re racing you know like you know like friends off the track you know then you can be enemies

Coach Mark Coogan 1996 U.S. Olympic Team Member …

on the track that was coach markk kugan today on the running effect podcast if you’re not familiar with coach Mark kugan he’s one of the most successful coaches in our sport at the moment I’ll just name two of his athletes that I’m sure many of you guys are familiar with and that kind of illustrates his success Ellie St Pierre and most recently Parker Valby the internet sensation herself one of the cool things about Coach kugan is he actually had a remarkably successful career as an athlete himself he actually has the distinction of being the first Massachusetts native to run a mile in under 4 minutes and then in his postc Collegiate running career he ranked in the top 10 in the United States in the mile steeple chase 5K 10K and Marathon during his career absolutely remarkable he retired from competitive running in 2004 Ed his Focus to coaching full-time where he spent time as the distance coach at Dartmouth College tus University MIT and Philips exitor Academy he now coaches the New Balance Boston group where he’s coached a plethora of Olympians national champions so many people who who have done remarkable things in the sport both on the men’s side and more particularly on the women’s side today’s conversation centers around the principles of success and Excellence that coach kugan has Illustrated throughout his career thoroughly enjoyed this one one of my favorite Parts was we dive deep into training philosophy a lot of highlevel coaches I think are pretty secretive about what they give their athletes but coach kugan was anything but that he was taking me through workouts um his mindset on strides all sorts of really intriguing things that uh I found a lot of value for from learning from him so hope you guys enjoy this one if you do share this episode in the podcast in general with a friend a family member a teammate someone who you think would find Value and benefit from it give us a five star review and hit the follow or subscribe button wherever you’re listening to podcasts without further Ado enjoy this conversation with the one and only the man theit the legend coach Mark cougan coach Mark kugan welcome to the running effect podcast how you doing this afternoon I’m doing really well thanks for having me on I didn’t do enough time to to fact check myself here but I’m pretty confident in myself I think you complete the first ever fatherson Duo to come on the podcast because I had on your son uh will with Patrick Anderson last year so you complete that duo I love that conversation with will obviously he shared his story of the tragic incident that happened coming up on on two years ago uh just starting the conversation probably in a way in which you didn’t expect keeping you on your toes can you speak to that fatherson relationship and something I think a lot of people people who are invested in the sport think a lot about is like how will they uh direct and Coach their kids one day if they get into the sport what’s that relationship been like for you and how have you been invested in his running while also taking a back seat yeah I mean I’ve really taken um a back seat in in Williams running um because uh like I wanted him to to fall into running on his own you know like he was he was a baseball player in high school and a soccer player in high school um and running he knew he was pretty good at running but it wasn’t like we didn’t force it down his throat or anything like that and um and I think because running so hard if it’s not fun if it turns out to be a job when you’re in high school or in college you’re never going to do well and so um yeah so I I’ve always taken you know a backseat and just been like the supportive parent and just you know cheering them on and you know especially after that car accident anytime I just see him run it makes me feel good even if it’s not he doesn’t have the race that he was really hoping to you know like last weekend I saw him racing at bu um last Saturday he ran 401 for the mile and he really wanted to break four minutes but he just tied up a little bit over the last 200 but to me I was just like I was just happy to see him out there running you know and you know Patrick was out there running too Patrick ran 358 so it was great to see you know the two of them and you know their teammate ran 348 you know so like coach milberg has it rolling down there at UNC right now you obviously and we can get into this in this conversation had a really impressive career yourself um both on the track and on the roads at what point did your kids become aware that their dad was a stud back in the day in the sport of running uh I don’t know I mean I the whole we always Ran So like Will’s mom ran too she was on the Olympic team in ’92 for 10K in Barcelona and then like I was on the team in 96 and stuff but um they we they always knew that we ran but I think it was really pretty lowkey at home you know I think that you know they were they were more excited if like if I ran a race in um in LA and I could take them to Disney World or something like that you know Disneyland whatever it is out there instead of you know how the race went but they’ve always they’ve always been around um running and you know a lot of our friends are um Elite Runners you know like Olympic medalists or whatever world record holders at the time and like so like they don’t they just see these people as just normal they don’t see them as these world class athletes they just see them as oh there’s Arturo you know you know from down the street or something like that so so I I think that’s I think that’s a pretty healthy way to have it you were talking about Will and how he had experiened in other sports be before finding his love for running in high school you yourself I was reading you played basketball in high school and you were even skilled enough to receive some scholarship offers uh to play basketball at some lower level schools take me through that Journey before running there was basketball for you what was that like yeah I mean I like I played baseball and basketball and whatever but basketball was really like my first love you know in like middle school and and high school and we had we had a pretty um competitive high school basketball team you know um colleges weren’t knocking down the door to offer me scholarships but a lot of D3 schools you know good good D3 schools you know I could have played at and um you know they were getting in touch with my high school coach asking if I was interested and he was already you know he started telling him like this kid can really run like he’s he’s got like Olympic level potential running you know he’s not going to you know he’s going to go to a D1 you know school and and try to run track the best he can and so they they kind of backed off but um loved basketball you know I after when I retired from running I coached um JV basketball with a friend of mine for a few years and and that was a blast as I was you know just starting to get into I was coaching cross country and JV basketball and you know even helping with a baseball team at um Philips exitor and that and that you know that

The Most Stressful Event To Watch as a Coach

Tau told me you know helped me learn how to coach a little bit but it also um told me that I felt like I could be a really good cross country track coach and then I kind of dove into it head first I was going to ask you you mentioned coaching at the JV level but in an alternate universe where you throw all your eggs in one basket and try to explore the pursuit of coaching basketball how far do you think you could have gone I mean you’re one of the best coach and you’re one of the best coaches in in the world for running but let’s take it to basketball how far do you think you could have gone I I don’t know assistant coach at some college somewhere cuz like when I was at like when I was like at Dartmouth I became really good friends with you know the basketball coaches because we would play at lunchtime and you know some of my friends are head coaches now um one of my teammates from high school is the head coach at St Bon adventures in Upstate New York and you know he’s brought teams you know to the NCA tournament a bunch of times and um uh I don’t know and I think like the way coaching changed now it’s like like when I was in high school a little bit there was still like that negative reinforcement that you know that coaches had and like I I kind of thrived in that but like but now you you have to be like a positive reinforcement type coach you can’t people don’t want to hear negative things you know they don’t like to be threatened anymore so like so like I’ve somehow figured out how to be like a really you know a positive coach and you know make the team environment you know fun friendly safe instead of you know you know like a a punishment if they’re late or things like that you know go run if you’re late you know are you gonna do something so but you can’t but even like a pro coach now you know like you it’s more positive reinforcement it’s more making sure that you know the total person’s doing well I think and um I think I’ve gotten pretty good at that in conversations with those basketball friends who happen to be coaches within the sport of basketball or your own Pursuits back in the day coaching JV how much crossover is there from coaching sport to sport do you think it’s pretty similar or do you think it’s pretty tailored to the given sport um I think creating a team environment is similar right like you know you and I were talking a little bit before we we started this um how like the seventh man on a cross country team is just as important as the first man and I think you know the first guy off the bench on a basketball team the sixth man could be just as important as the first per you know the best player on the team depending on you know what they bring when they step on the court you know positive energy you know when they’re sitting on the bench and not playing they have good body language and they’re encouraging their teammates so there’s there’s a lot there’s a lot of similarities you know even the eighth man on a college cross country team can push the team forward more than um you would think when you think to building team culture what do you think are the biggest things that contribute to healthy positive team culture I think that having healthy happy people on the team is really important and and um you don’t you’re not you don’t necessarily know what you’re going to get like when you’re a college coach recruiting or you know like I think what I recruit people to my team it’s a little bit easier because I can talk to their college coach and they’ve done four years and I can see them and every races on internet now or on TV or I could go watch it you know but I but I think it’s I think it’s still a little bit um diffic difficult you know for a college coach because they’re getting kids that are you know 18 years old you know American kids if they’re American you know they’re 18 years old and um you know they’re still changing and going through you know their brain is still developing and their bodies are still changing so I think it’s I think it’s a little bit tougher to be um a coach to get the exact right um you know right type of people but once you once you get that established the kids on your team will actually do a lot of the recruiting for you because they’ll they’ll know other people around the country or around the world you know and they can tell what tell tell what these recruits what it’s like what the coaches like and so once the team gets rolling it seems like the team kind of recruits for itself and and they recruit people that are similar to them because they that’s what they feel comfortable in that environment you know I’m wouldn’t be surprised if you talk about this in your book uh which I’m sure will will be brought up in this conversation as well as just the principles from it you’ll you’ll speak on and I’ll leave a link to that in the show notes for people who want to read that writing of yours which I know is uh uh big popular around the Running World and a lot of people have found value from but how much coaching would you say is science versus art and where do you feel like you fall on that spectrum of the science versus the art um I think I I think I know the science you know fairly well but I’m more I’m more of a a people person so I think it’s I think you know I think you have to have a rough idea about all the science but it’s more important to be a um uh a a person can read people well that understands people I think that’s the most important thing so I would say you know it might be like 30% knowing the science exactly and 70% you know or 60 40 um some somewhere in that um I think you know like I might like if you went out for you know someone goes out and 20 mile run I mean I don’t know how many new capillary beds are going to lay down in their you know quads or something like that like you know or like how many you know four weeks at altitude you know you know how much iron do they have to take in to keep their fadin level up and things like that but but I have I have a rough idea and when I don’t know an answer to something I’ll go find out so like like my team is pretty lucky that you know the usoc the the US Olympic Committee um you know we have res we can call them up or we can send them a blood test or you know usatf does the same thing you know so like when we have questions um we can often get answers you know we have a really good orthopedic doctor in Boston Dr 1040 who um he’s he knows running inside and out and you know and he likes our team and so if someone gets injured or something’s bugging him it’s just a phone call away and you know Dr 1040 tries to get them in really quickly and um he knows how important every day is so so I think for me it’s more important to you know to be that that good guy you know understand what’s going on and how to get people in the shape I know how to get people to run a mile and everything like that but I don’t have X-ray vision I can’t tell if you know know their legs hurting or if you or you know if there’s a stress fracture or stress reaction or you know if they had a you know if they had a a breakup with a a boyfriend or a girlfriend or you know whoever their significant other is like I can’t I’m not a mind reader so like I think it’s really important to have that communication where they tell me how they’re feeling and they’re honest with me you know and I’m pretty honest with the team if I think somebody can run a 420 mile I’ll say I honestly think you can run a 420 mile I’m not going to say oh you can run 420 12 and then they go out and run you know try to run 412 and die and run 4:30 and then they’re upset you know so I’m like I’m pretty you know honest about um what I think they can do and can’t do you mentioned the percentage like 30 70 60 40 whatever it might be how much do you feel like that pendulum has swung throughout the years like if I asked you that question the art versus the science your first year of coaching way back in the day would it be a different response or do you feel like you’ve always been pretty similar in terms of coaching philosophy um I’m like when I probably first started coaching you know I probably would have like you know you know pulled out Jack Daniels book a little bit more or something like that but but like when I was running I ran with so many good people and none of them you know none of them were really like you know diving into science you know all the time you know like we would go down to the track and there’d be like eight or nine of us in one person would be would say like what are you what were you thinking about doing today and he might say I was thinking about doing 8 by 800 and then like Arturo might say I was thinking about doing 5x 2K and somebody else was saying well I was just going to do 1200s and then someone would say well why

Julian Staley

don’t we do six times a mile and we’ you know it’s like it’s close and we all and then we’d have people to run with we’d all run a little bit faster it wouldn’t be as mentally you know exhausting somebody would be breaking the wind on everyone so it and it and it you know it made like this camaraderie that was just made it a ton of fun and um so I’ve always kind of operated like that and you know at certain times you know you have to be really specific like if you’re running a big mile you don’t want to run six times a mile the week before or something like that but you know you could find someone else that’s running a mile and it probably doesn’t matter if you’re doing 400s or 300s you know you’re just trying to get a little speed work in and you know get ready for the race that’s that that’s always been kind of my Approach we on sorry like on the team we said we’re always like you know let’s just getting to work in today you know you know like if if it’s um if we’re doing a 5 Mile tempo run and it’s super windy or something you know we might just turn it into miles with a minute rest so then you can turn around and get the wind you know at your back the whole time or it just go straight and what whatever and so like we just know we’re getting the work in and um you know say you want to run five minute miles but it’s snowy and windy out and

How Does the Recruitment Process Work

you have you know a lot of gear on and um you know a 5 minute mile might be 515 in those conditions and like I I really get excited when my team’s like yeah we just ran 515 but man that that would you know if we were on a track and it was nice out I would have been five flat you know and that that tells me they get it you know because they know they’re getting the work in and putting the effort in and stuff like that do you think people over complicate training these days because I bet if I talked to you back in your college Days running well you did kind of mention it with your buddies and how you guys would adjust workouts it was just like let’s run hard a few times a week and run a lot of mileage between days to recover and we’ll probably get better yeah I mean I think I overtrained when I was running and I think my you know my college teammates we did like every workout kind of turned into a race and stuff and like I’ve kind of figured that out you know and like like I’ll make sure we’re not racing workouts and um we you know we talk a lot about you know B+ type stuff you want to you know you want to go hard but you always want to feel like you could have done another set or another interval like that you know like we talk about you know it’s more important to have you know three months of not missing a workout than having you know two A+ workouts and then your kiles HTS and you’re missing a week of training and or you get run down because school’s hard and you know missing you know you’re not sleeping quite enough and so so I think like you know just consistency I would say is you know the probably one of the most important things in uh you know training a distance Runner or being a distance Runner being really consistent in your training you mentioned a few minutes ago that uh you know how to coach people to run a fast mile that’s obviously true from the results that I’ve shown from the past few years but a lot of people who listen to this podcast are a younger age and I think either in the thick of their indoor season or gearing up for an outdoor season and I think it’s popular question on everyone’s mind how do I run a faster mile maybe there’s some 60-year-old out there who wants to run a fast mile for the first time what are uh Mark hugin’s top keys off the top of your head to to running a fast Mile and training for it I mean like we we talk like so so like just say you know I tell a lot of people that say you want to um you know break five minutes in the miles say 75 seconds a lap right basically 75 seconds for a 400 like almost everybody that wants to break 5 minutes in a mile can run a 75 right and most of them can run a 23800 but running 345 it starts to go a little bit tough but it’s only a 75 still right and then only one more 75 after that your five flat and I like you know I’m always saying like well why why does it get hard to you know run 75 and they’re like and if they say like I’m just not doing enough speed work you know I need to run 60c 400s I’m like no no you probably need you know a little bit more strength you know you need to be you know maybe a little bit more aerobically strong so you don’t get exhausted running these 75s you know and and it’s the same thing for like some of the women that I coach you know like four minutes for the 1500 four is 64s and like you know everybody on my team can they all can run like probably 54 or 53 or 55 or something for 400 but running 4 64s in a row without a break is what gets tough so I think you know I think you know you need you need some miles you know you need a little bit of mileage in there you need to have your strength we do a lot of um we do a lot of work at like 5K pace so like we do a lot of work at 15 flat 5K pace which is 72s so like 224 for an eight we do a lot of you know three minute case 222 to 225 800s and you just try to get strong as an ox they’re not too beat up after they do stuff like that and then makes it that makes them be able to handle those you know 75 75 75 if they want to break 5 minutes in the mile or you know 64 64 64 to break four minutes for500 and you know we do we do a lot of strides we do you know like if we’re if we’re sharpen it up obviously we’re going to do some 200s or 300s or a couple of quarters that would be faster but we don’t do a ton of it we definitely don’t do a ton of it and I and we stay healthy for the most part what do you think is missing from most people’s training when you look at modern day training not even the professional world because majority of people listening are’t going to be professional runners yeah I I would say like I I think people might do too much speed work you know some people might disagree with me but I think people you know I don’t think you need to go the track three times a week you know to you know to make an Olympic team or you know make an Olympic final or um or or you know win your state meet or something like that um I laughed you know and I talked to Coach coach milberg and I talked about about this a little bit was like like when um um Ethan Strand and um Parker wolf ran 7:30 for 3K back in December at beu it was like two weeks after they just ran 10K cross country and they hadn’t been on the track they hadn’t been doing anything fast they were just strong as oxes from doing cross country work all fall you know like they had run they had run a five mile or in 2 10ks in the last month before that day and like you would think in your head like that’s not how you go set you know ncad D1 Collegiate record for 3K by running you know two 10K cross country races but um that’s what they did and and when you when all these like I’ve seen a lot of people at like be after that first December race you know where a lot of people run fast coming off across country they oh my God I just ran you know X time and I haven’t done any speed work you know and then then they’ll run their conference Championship in in you know February or March and they’ll do the same event and they’ll run slower and they’ve been doing all the speed work it’s because they you know they they not doing their 70 80 miles a week anymore now they’re doing 50 and going the track a couple times a week and they’re running slower you know so I’m kind of a strength guy yeah how do you find that unique balance where I’m sure if we look at Ellie’s training leading into the Olympics like there’s some sort of taper off and maybe some sort of sharpening um it’s certainly not the example that you gave which happens all the time by the way in high school and college where Runners will slowly run worse as they bring down mileage and start hitting the track more so how do you find that right balance of the two yeah well we we always do we always have some kind of threshold work every week you know and for like for probably 80% of the year we’ll do that on Tuesdays you know so it would be some kind of tempo run or Cruise intervals or but something you know temp more Tempo we and then on Friday we usually do something you know faster more um event specific but for my team it’s mostly like 5K stuff even if they’re like a steeple Chaser or a mile or for like most of the time we do um 5K type stuff and um but like when a big races coming up you know a couple weeks out you know we’ll we’ll you know ramp it up a little bit you know we might you know do like four times 800 at you know mile PR Pace or something you know let’s do 4 time 800 at 206 you know or something like that or let’s do you know an 800 time trial you know not all all out but you know run close to two minutes take a good break then do some fours or something like that or you know do a little Tempo work and then do another Hard Eight you know so like we we’ll we’ll touch on it but we try not to do it you know too too often and and their strengths there you know and so they can always like get down there I think another thing that we do that I don’t know if other teams do it but we do you know we do you know 8 to 10 by 100 meter strides like you know five times a week after runs you know so like Monday when we’re done running we’re doing strides Tuesday before our session we’re doing strides Wednesday after our run we’re doing strides Thursday we’re doing strides Friday before our session we’re doing strides so we do a lot of strides and um I learned that from Arturo baros he had the world record at 10K back in the day and he used to do 10 times uh 10 times 100 meters after every run you know every run and he was running twice a day so he’s getting you know 2,000 meters of strides every single day you know and so you touch you know so like you know you’re touching on your fast twitch a little bit they don’t beat you up they kind of loosen you up they strengthen your tendons they open your stride up they do a lot of really good things for you and um you don’t carry into the next day what’s the theory behind so if you have a Tuesday workout right uh that next Wednesday you’re doing strides what’s the theory behind still doing strides the day after workout because in my mind I’m you’re up here I’m you can’t even see my hand you’re so much more than me it’s unbelievable but I would always take Wednesday as like a a pure recovery day so the thought process there yeah so they’re like so like on a Wednesday they might go just putt you know 10 miles or something you know run they’ll just run how they feel very conversational Pace I don’t don’t get caught up on the time or anything and um but you like you know like if you run like eight miles or 10 miles like when you’re done like you sometimes you feel tighter or you know you like your back you feel like your form might be going you’re sitting down a little bit more you know and just get back and you do you know 8 8 times 100 m you know at 80% you all a sudden you just feel good you feel get like your little snap get back in your legs it’s not going to make you tired it’s not depleting anything you know it might it’s probably going to loosen you up you know and and it’s going to make you feel better on Thursday so um yeah so I have no I don’t even think twice about strides like I don’t they don’t they don’t make you tired they just make you good make you feel better you know right and you’re not and they’re not you’re not racing them you see you know like you know like you might they might be in 15 or 16 seconds you know they’re not like 12 or 13 second 100 meters you know at some point we’ll run some you know fast 150s or fast hundreds but not not generally after a run when we when we’re doing strides you mentioned a minute ago some of those flash year workouts that are very few and far between like a 4 by8 at 206 on those days when you wake up does it feel a little bit like race day of like oh this is one of the few opportunities a year that that we get after it and I get to see my athletes run hard yeah yeah and and yeah def definitely and I they know it’s going to be a hard workout I mean I’m not going to I don’t usually drop it on them like sometimes I might not tell them the whole workout but um but they know it’s they’re going to run hard so like like in December like I’ve done it to Ellie a couple times I said let’s just do a you know do a 3K and you know she ran like and I can’t remember the exact time but I want to say she ran like 850 and she thought that was really good you know and then I was like all right you got five minutes and we’re doing it again you know and then she runs 8:45 and then she’s like oh man I am in good shape but like a little bit off guard caught her a little bit off guard you know or you know Parker did something similar to that um back in December so we knew she was in in we know she’s in a pretty good spot and now just had a really good um training camp out in Flag Staff so like like I think I mean Parker ran 834 the other night first Pro Race you know I think she can probably run 1435 or something right now and she’s only 22 years old so we’ll be you know it’s going to be fun to see her develop over the next couple of years yes speaking specifically on Parker what’s it been like to see her talent and now have a hand in developing that talent in the years to come uh no it’s it’s it’s been great you know I like I get to know her I got to know her and her mom and dad um you know fairly well over the last year you know I wasn’t sure if she was going to end up on on New Balance Boston but um I could tell she was you know a nice person and um since she’s since she’s been in Boston like I feel like we hit a home run cuz uh she funny as heck she doesn’t take herself too seriously she takes her running seriously but like I can Goof on her she can Goof on me all the women on the team can Goof on her and like she fits right in you know and and and being 22 and like literally moving to Boston when you’re 22 and you know only having a few friends that you know really no friends she just knows the women on the team they’re friends now like that takes some guts and um commitment and like you know I’m very proud of her for for doing that and she’s she’s very very good there’s no there’s no question in my mind she’s very good so hopefully you know hopefully you know she keeps progressing and she likes Boston and you know things like that like like I told her like like I’ve told her a few times like you know if it really gets crappy up here and snowy now because it didn’t snow once when we’re were in flag and it’s been cold here we only been here for a week but it’s been pretty cold and like we’ll do a couple races but I’m I’m like hey you know like like after indoors we’re going to go back and do a little base phase I’m going to be like hey if you want to go back down to Florida you know and you know do a little base phase that’s really that’s fine with me you know like getting some sun and cuz it’s she’s not going to be used to it you know like March gets old up here you know so maybe we’ll take the whole team down to Florida for a week or two or something like that just uh break it up but um but we’ll all go back to we’ll all go back to altitude in April the important question has she convinced you to try kuchi yet she asked I well I’ve always i’ I’ve drank it beforehand okay I’ve drank it more since she’s been on the team but um but I yes i’ yeah yep she’s a big Kucha fan she loves Whole Foods like whole food should yeah obsessed whole food should sponsor her you know so so funny last time I talked to her I lived in Austin in 2023 and um their world headquarters is in Austin I think that’s where it started and so I went a bunch and uh I think she found that out and was about to get off the call and fly down to Austin to see it in person because she loves whole food so much yeah in my conversations with um coach will Palmer her her coach in college he shared a story with me that just like her first week on campus he was like this is the biggest talent I’ve ever had what’s it been like to to see her do some of these workouts do some of the training and um just see obviously like you see the results in college but then to get a front row seat at the training and see how hard she works and how much she cares about the sport what that what has that been like yeah I mean first like will just did a tremendous job with her you know just the way you know the amount of mileage she ran the cross train and you know like they figured it out right and like and and Will’s just been super supportive of her coming up here and I’m working with me if I have a question um I can text him and right back to me so like you know he did he did a tremendous job and and he didn’t cook her which you know occasionally a college coach will cook an athlete and they don’t you know perform that well as a pro and I and I and that’s like one of the things that we look for on New Balance Boston we look for athletes that we feel like might be a little bit undertrained that we can see the potential in that you know maybe some of our competitiv you know other shoe companies don’t even notice like I mean I have two people basically three people on my team that no one else really wanted Heather mlan Ellie Ellie St Pierre and um em and Heather El Heather mlan Emily McKai and Ellie St Pier like no one no one really wanted them yeah and yeah it’s like the three best MERS in the country you know and throw Nikki there’s other people in there but um but they can they could go one two three we thought we were going to go one two three at the trials you know and we were one two3 with you know 200 to go and then Heather you know just um tied up a little bit but you never know so so I like that he didn’t kill her will didn’t kill her and um hopefully I won’t kill her and she’ll keep you know keep improving um when she does workouts she she’s an aerobic monster like her heart rate stays low very very low um she can do Tempo and threshold stuff all all day long she can do you know 10K work all day long um but we but we also feel like if we can get her a teeny bit faster without breaking her down like cuz you know in a lot of a lot of big races now like it it does come down to the last 100 or last laap or something like that and you know if the race is going really fast then you don’t have to have the you don’t have to have the best kick in the world but you still have to have a kick you know like like I would say like on my team she doesn’t have the best kick in the world but if the race is hard she can kick with anybody in the world and I I want to get Parker like like to that somehow you know so like she’s not gonna she’s not going to run in a race that’s 33 minutes she’s going to make it 30 minutes you know and then then yeah try to kick when you’re exhausted it’s different you know it’s like um Parker out kicked Georgie Bell last weekend and Geor you went third in the Olympics in 1500 and you know she Parker out kicked her over the last lap you know Parker wasn’t flying coming in but still faster than those guys so um that’s what I mean by you know like developing her kick I think what would you say is her best event from what you know thus far from her training you mentioned she’s an aerobic Beast Marathon one day maybe maybe yeah maybe Marathon but I know like you know in her heart she really wants to you know do the 10 in LA and you know be in contention for a medal with a Lap to go and doesn’t mean you’re going to get a medal but it might mean you you’ll get one if you’re with the leaders of a lap to go who knows right so I think that’s what she’s thinking I mean I know that’s what she’s thinking speaking on some other members of the team can you give some air time to the other individuals who make up the team I know Parker more recently with the the recent signing of her as well as like Ellie throughout the years get a lot of the attention and praise but as you talked about before the seventh and eighth man matter just as much as number one so can you talk about the team as a whole and and the culture you guys have created over the years sure I mean we’ve really we’ve tried really hard to you know to to make the team like a family the best I can you know it’s never perfect like a family is never perfect you’re going to have little battles here and there but at the end of the day you know you want everybody to look out for each other on the team and um when we go to a meet I you know I want them to feel comfortable you know warming up with your teammates or going out to dinner I don’t want them ever to feel like isolated when they’re at of meet or something like that I think that’s important to be comfortable when you get somewhere but but on the team you know on the team right now we have Liam Meer um she’s from Germany and she’s a really good runner but barely anybody even know who she is who she is she came in 10th in the Olympics last summer in the steeple chase she ran 909 and um she’s from Germany and you know she just fits in seamlessly and everybody loves her she’s gonna she’s got she’s in Boston now she’s going to go home pretty soon and run the German indoor Champs and try to run um Europeans this indoors hopefully I’ll go over there and and help her at that meet and then um another person on the team is Millie Paladino she was All-American at Providence College but she when she moved up here she moved up to like the five and the 10 and I think she’s going to be one of the best 10K runners in the country this year or next year you know she was pretty close a couple years ago and then she had hagland surgery on her um foot and so it’s taken her a little bit while to um bounce back but she’s she’s 100% healthy now so she’s just you know getting into shape um my daughter Katrina is on the team so Will’s sister so um she’s on the team she she went to Georgetown um you know they won NCA cross country at Georgetown coach Milt was the coach of Georgetown then you know and Katrina LED Georgetown out kicked everybody and led Georgetown to um the DMR um at you know Championship they won ncas and the DMR and that’s a big deal and that’s the kind of kid Katrina is she want you know she probably could have been you know battling for a win in the mile or the 3K or something at NC’s but she wanted to you know they wanted to go for a win as a team which is you know that’s that’s the stuff that I think’s you know really cool you know we have shifra on the team from Ireland 800 meter Olympian you know 159 two flat um yeah we have a couple of guys on the team Derek Johnson who ran for UVA he’s he’s due for a really big breakthrough I think he ran um just the other night he ran 353 in the mile and then came back and paced the 5K and said 48 that’s a pretty good double with not much rest Christian Noble on the team he um he’s like the alltime D2 NCA champ and he’s run pretty well for us he’s he’s struggled over a little bit over the last year but he just had his best um training camp at flag out of probably like four or five of them so I think he might have have a um a good Outdoors a good a good year this year um trying to think if I’m missing anybody I might be missing somebody but but um but they all get along really well um you know like like some of them you know they used to a lot of them always always used to live together but then then they got boyfriends or girlfriends or whatever and now like some of them are living with their you know their significant others or some of them got married but like you know like Heather’s in Ellie’s wedding and you know Katrina was in Leanne’s wedding like just you know Leanne’s not on the team anymore but like the the whole group kind of you know they pretty much for the most part you know look out for each other yeah yeah then like we say yeah well and one thing I say like you know like train together and do all this together but but when you race like you want to kick your teammates butt you know like you’re not GNA like hey Parker go ahead of me you know you had a bit of week no like you know Katrina you try to kill Parker in a race you know or you know beat them or Ellie do not let Emily beat you on a 1500 or Emily don’t let Ellie beat you you know you guys race to the death you know but um but other you know except for when we’re racing you know like you know like friends off the track you know then you can be enemies on the track you or whatever but something like that I love it I love it when you look back on your coaching career what are some of your most proud moments I I like one of the big ones was the first time that um Abby Abby um diaso at the time when she um when she won her first NCA she won the 5K when she was a um uh a sophomore at Dartmouth and we knew she was going to be close and she just won and it just like it’s just like got got she started snowballing and crushing everybody after that so um that was a big deal to me you know and her being such a nice person you know that that was big I don’t know you might be a little bit too young but when she um got tripped in the Rio Olympics and fell down and her first you know the first thing that she did was helped the competitor that tripped her up and then made sure that person was okay and um that just showed what you know what kind of a person she is you know like she was willing to you know more worried about someone else’s you know Health well-being in this crazy moment you know that’s just a special person you know and she won she won the Olympics has this award that’s that um that they give to like the Olympic Spirit or something like that and you know they say it’s even more valuable than a gold medal and you know Abby got that so it’s something that you know something that I’m really proud of because like you know I coached it for four years at Dartmouth and then like four years leading into those Olympics or something like that so I feel like I have a little like I had a little part in that you know like of her just being a special person so that’s a big deal to me you know and then like you know anytime some you know when we went 13 in the 1500 for the Tokyo Olympics you know big deal that’s was a big deal you know Ellie and Heather both making it from UNH and UMass you know nobody really wanted them you know and then they just kicked everybody’s butt and then like last year Ellie and emac emac from Sunni bingamon you know same thing you know like we found these little Diamonds in the Rough and like tried to help them you know get there so lots of stuff like that yeah so lots of I guess yeah so many that’s how you want to keep it uh for you final serious question for those who listen to this podcast they want to get better they look at someone like you who’s transformed so many athletes lives uh what would the final message be to an athlete out there who wants to take their running to the next level level this year what are some things they can do to improve and get better and make 2025 your best running year yet well number one it has to be fun right it’s not it’s not a job you know it’s it’s it’s fun it’s supposed to be fun right it’s supposed to you know you’re supposed to look forward to getting up and going running or look get um looking forward to going to practice and being around your buddies you know you know I would say you know I used to tell the team at Dartmouth like you know we’re going to run hard at practice or whatever but I I really want practice to be your best two hours of the day your most fun two hours of the day even though like it could be a hard day so I would you know I’d say that’s really important and then um you know be consistent you know really be consistent with your training don’t you know don’t you know have one week then miss a week then have a week you know try to be you know you know as consistent as you can be um and also like you one bad race doesn’t Define a season so um you know it’s not like it’s it’s easy to just get back on the horse or forget about it cuz that’s like it’s hard it’s hard I mean i r I ran it’s hard to forget about stuff you know and um and it’s an important part of your um your makeup but I would say if you have a bad race please don’t let you know running Define who you are you’re still a good person you know and um like when we go to the Olympic trials or a big race like I I always tell the team like listen you know I hope everybody makes the team or you know everybody has a PR whatever but like at the end of the day like if you don’t make the team your mom and dad are still going to love you you know your coach is still going to love you um your boyfriend girlfriend whatever still going to be there for you your best friends you know they hope you make it but it’s still going to be your best friends so it’s like so like everything’s going to be okay so like when you walk out you know in a a state meet or state championship or NCA meet like when you get out there you know look around say hey I put a lot of work in I’m gonna run as hard as I can do the best I can and I’m just not you know and and I know I’m going to put it out there and I know I’m going to have a pretty good run and then I’m going to be happy you know the best I can regardless you know you can’t not be disappointed if you don’t hit your goals but if your goals are realistic and you have consistent training you’re going to be close to them you’re GNA get really really close to them I I firmly believe that Mark one final question for you the question I ask every single guest on every single podcast any on a lighter note if you had Gordon Ramsey coming over to your house for dinner what would you choose to make for him oh man um I don’t know my my favorite meal is my mom’s spaghetti and meatballs SOA I probably ask to make my mom spaghetti and meatballs CU she’s starting to get a little bit old and she doesn’t make I don’t get to have it as much anymore and I have the recipe but I can’t duplicate it so i’ you know I’d ask uh Gordon to make that for me I love it I love it bring you back to the good old days well coach really appreciate this conversation thank you so much for taking the time to share so many insights and wisdom from your successful both athletic career as an individual in the sport and now as a coach um keep crushing it and excited to see your athletes continue to thrive this year awesome thank you very much