Full Video Transcript

whenever they realized they didn’t make it there were a few of them um that had a cathartic moment it’s hard to talk about um they realized like that opportunity is gone like so when you watch people realize and fail and they break down they cry and they’re hugging each other that’s what was missing you know like they realize oh this is why we do this we’re not going to let this happen again that was one of the few raw moments from my conversation today with coach Kelly Christensen this conversation blew me away Coach Kelly does not get the flowers he deserves and this was one of my favorite conversations I’ve ever had with a coach on the podcast it was a true privilege to sit down with the coach of the winner of the boys nxn team nyatt High School based out of Boulder Colorado he’s been coaching there and a school counselor since 2016 and this was after a transition of his background in construction management oddly enough which we go into in today’s conversation during his time at nyatt the cross country program has achieved five girl state championship titles and two boy state titles the boys have been crowned four individual state champions and one individual runner up as well this year at nxn the boys team totaled 70 points to take home the W that was the first nxn title in school history for those who are unaware of what nxn is it is the national cross country meet for teams and if you win you are the best to the best you’re the best in the country and that’s exactly what nyatt did on the boy side I go in depth with coach Kelly today on what it took to win his lessons a lot of lessons on sustainable Excellence that’s what stuck out to me the most and impacted me I think he’s got a lot of beautiful contrary views to what the norm is and what most people say it takes to be great in the sport of running I personally wish coach Kelly coach me in high school um he’s got such a good heart and that shows in today’s conversation really bleeds through and this conversation was a true gift I hope you guys enjoyed if you do share today’s episode with a friend a family member a teammate someone who you think would find Value and benefit from it particularly that high school age range that would be great I would greatly appreciate that hit the follow button or subscribe button you never miss another episode and also cheer on top give us a five star review would greatly appreciate it with all those notes aside I hope you all enjoy my conversation with the man the my the legend coach Kelly Christensen coach Kelly Christensen welcome to the running effect podcast how you doing this morning up and early and appreciate you giving me some time of your morning to dive deep on so many things no I’m doing great uh excited to just have a conversation with you and uh thanks for getting me uh out of work today they’re they’re testing today and I went to my admin team and said hey I could do a podcast with a guy that’s doing really really well and doing good things for the running community and can I get out of sat testing and and spend some time with him so thank you for uh being flexible and getting me out of work did you have the sat back in the day this might dat you apologies if it does uh if so how’d you do uh I was an act okay uh tester Colorado was act back when I when I was in high school uh where I grew up was a little coal mining and Ranch Community um we chased off all the teachers it’s about four and a half five hours from Denver and uh kids really it was Blue Collar Community they they went straight to the coal mine or to the ranch or construction and school wasn’t serious so I I didn’t have the act at our school and it was actually my college coach that was like hey uh you have to go take this test so I had to drive three hours to go take the test did just good enough to to get my scholarship and uh yeah so act we’re all over the place today but we just want to have a conversation so that’s how it happens and uh I tend to approach podcasts and ask the guests questions that I would ask them if we were just on a phone call the question I would have asked you off of that if we were on a phone call would be something I’ve read into and found interesting uh throughout the years of studying the sport is the the mental strain of certain things and how you structure training around it so if you have a a heavy heavy test like the SAT or act for high school athletes and then you have a workout that day mentally you’re going to be fried going into the workout you might not perform as well you know for your athletes today maybe you don’t have a workout maybe you intentionally you know ski days a little bit but how do you approach something like a big test day or big test period in relation to training for your athletes do you think about those sort of things and if so how do you move things around yeah when I when I first started coaching no I never considered any of Life stress you know like I never looked at stress being a mentally and physically demanding like in terms of social academic I just thought you showed up ran you’re an athlete and I never stressed about school um but as as I’ve come to nyatt and coached even before at Palmer Ridge these kids are extremely academically driven and whenever I would force a workout on kids or even like try to race a kid after an AP exam or after an IB exam like it just doesn’t like they have nothing like the the stress of the test and how much they care about their academics uh it drains them uh and there’s just nothing there mentally to to really give their body physically to the sport so yeah today the kids are they’re on their own uh we adjusted we had a little bit of a snowstorm last night um and the weather we got a high of 12 today so we kind of just uh did a little more last night but it wasn’t intense it was just time on their feet uh get a little volume in uh told them ahead of time that we wouldn’t have practice on a SAT day when it’s freezing cold outside so uh they are pretty excited just to know that they can come to school test go home um and they’ll have different options in terms of what they’re going to do it’s the offseason so we’re not going to force Fitness right now and shouldn’t be doing that anyways so I think as I’ve gone further and further into my coaching career like we know when those test dates are and it’s really easy to plan around it um we had a Down last week so the energy was High um on Monday and yesterday and I think kids have the ability to perform academically today and and not have to worry about another hard workout till Friday so uh we we definitely build around academic stress social stress prom uh homecoming uh anything Valentine’s Day this weekend we’re not going to practice Friday or Saturday um just kind of give kids their space and let them exist um so this isn’t their only identity I feel like all those things you mentioned are kind of exclusive to the high school running you’re experienced it definitely a little bit in college and certainly aspects of it in the professional world but High School is kind of the one period where everything’s thrown at you at once and you’re growing and learning and going through puberty and all these things all at once would you say that the high school age group is the hardest group to coach I don’t know because I think I think professionally in my op opinion professionally might be the hardest because it’s the it’s the only thing they do um like their job is to recover these these kids have a lot of distractions that can be healthy um and I think I think as all coaches who coach High School the longer you’re coaching them you kind of learn when to lean into different things that can separate their identity from from running so that they have more and love it more um but I think if I was a professional coach it would be really really hard uh when that’s all the do you know like it’s I know when I was running in college and logging miles like that’s like my whole day was built around how am I going to recover before I run another hard long run or another workout um so I think it’s it’s different I would say it’s fun to see kids be kids and do different things um and and I think it did take probably longer than it would take to coach college or or Pros in terms of like what’s the appropriate amount of stress you can you can ask of a kid and and how do you not really mess up their relationship with running so um I think that that’s really just the foundation is just making sure kids are happy and their hips are moving side to side they’re dancing at practice and as soon as you see the shoulders start to drop it’s like okay let’s like step back and um do something different so it is it is hard to juggle but honestly you just gota let kids know they’re not hostage and and they don’t have to be at practice all the time at least that’s the way we are uh it’s really like a Boulder County type thing I think like knowing your community every Community is going to be different um but a lot of our kids and parents it’s a you do you community and and you support them in that and they make their mistakes on their own terms and um we definitely have practice all the time but we don’t want to hold them hostage to it and we we always communicate that just because there’s a practice or a race on the schedule like you don’t have to be here um go ski go go to Hawaii go do different things you running more will’ll be here like if it’s not Championship season like they know it’s there’s freedom and a lot of them are getting away this weekend so do you find then that the because I think an outsider could could hear that and think this guy’s program must suck and that’s not true you just want anxn which we which we’ll get into um so is there a lot of buyin from the athlete themsel where if they go to Hawaii you know they’re still getting in their workout and if so how have you built in that personal buyin throughout the years as a coach there yeah there there there’s tons of buying and honestly like some of the kids uh I would say freshman and sophomore years they they really don’t know how to navigate it and they and they make the mistakes of either not running or like thinking they’re missing out on like a special workout and maybe they go do too much while they’re away and then they come back sick so uh they find that balance usually their junior senior year and from the get-go we we give autonomy to kids um they know that that we we don’t really require anything like every day is an opportunity in our culture um and if we have five or six practice opportunities in a week like that’s what they are um but there’s also other things that get in their in in the way of their life and then every day they also usually have freshman sophomore year a range of options you know like 10 to 25 minute run um and it’s really up to them like if if they’re new to the sport 10 minutes is probably all they need to do to go home smiling and wanting to come back and then as they find out like through Fitness they get a little better like they start to do more naturally um so from the get-go there’s autonomy a kids uh in our program that really care about running and start to get into it we have a training app um that we use like like most programs uh we use training Peaks because it’s based out of here down the street um so kids that really want to know what’s going on day to day and have an idea exactly what they’re going to do they have that app and we put in their weekly training and then kids that new the program they just kind of want to show up and do what their friends are doing or not do what their friends are doing and um it’s not forced like like we just we’re at a point I think everybody should know by now that like autonomy is is huge to be successful in life and it’s huge to be successful in sports and if you Empower kids and you’re patient with kids you’re going to see The Return um because it really it’s their program and that’s that’s really what we want as a coaching staff is for them to have that autonomy empowerment to make decisions and live with them so yeah going back a few discussions ago to the discussion surrounding ACT SAT and and how you uh change training around those sort of things for you I know there are a lot of athletes within the program itself how are you checking in consistently with the individual members to tailor training because with that many kids you’re going to have a kid show UPS practice who had the best day of school he’s had in two months and he’s ready to get after it you’re also probably going to have a kid who had a really rough day at school or something rough happening in his family how do you make sure you’re checking in with the amount of athletes you have because for me my cross country team like I was like one of 12 guys it’s like so easy for my coach to check in with us but I imagine in your case in situation with that many people just curious to get your brain on how you check in with so many people all at once yeah that that’s hard because you we’re over a 100 athletes in the season um and then in the off season we’re right around 50 60 that show up every day and then uh I think the first thing is like making sure you have coaches on staff that are better at you at their job than you’re at your job so I I feel like I’m very fortunate to have uh an army of assistant coaches that have found ways to commit one or two days a week of their life um showing up consistently for our kids and we have kids that look forward to when they’re there and that’s where the relationship is um in all our coaches uh we we do believe that like wherever that relationship naturally goes uh we’re okay with that student or that athlete checking in with whoever it is so dayto day they know that uh coach Alyssa and myself will be there and they know that on Mondays and Wednesday is coach Pete’s there and they know that on Monday Tuesday Wednesday Saturday Coach Bloom’s there um they know that coach latio is there on Wednesday and like half of these people work in our building too um and then they also know from from the get-go when we meet them first week of practice and it’s reinforced over and over again that that this is their journey and we’re available and we’re going to give you 100% and not all of you are we’re at that commitment level yet um and that’s okay just know that we’re available so we do we do talk as a coaching staff all the time to make sure that kids feel seen and heard and we’re also just big at looking body language like like you can usually tell with kids they’re terrible porker poker players um the way they come to you know maybe they don’t show up one day or maybe the way they their mood change their affect changes when they’re walking to practice or even after the warm-up run uh you know to have a one-on-one with with them um being in the building helps a ton uh I’m trying to always create my office to be more of the kids office um so that they know the doors open and they can just hang out in there and I try to spend less time in here uh than they do uh and then I’m also in the gymnasium I’m a PE teacher so I see 150 kids every block so there’s just a lot of ways that we’ve made oursel available and our kids know that we care um and that they can have hard conversations with us even even if it doesn’t seem like a hard conversation to an adult it’s pretty hard for kids to have the courage these days to have those conversations so yeah we’re just making sure we talk to them and when we don’t see them we shoot them an email or I can pull them up on our Compu my computer and um go find them in the hallways whenever the bell rings so yeah I can tell from that response as well as the 13 minutes of conversation with you thus far you’re a very humble guy even you acknowledging your assistance in that way um I know if I had every single one of them on they they would disagree and and probably say you know coach Kelly is transform this program so I want to ask you how crucial do you think that quality is humility as a coach and how would you define that word and how do you try to live it out in your day-to-day life uh man so humility so being humble uh yeah I’m not chasing results I I really like I’m a competitive person and and I think just over the years of of early on in coaching and and in college and high school just being so tied to like what place I got being how like validating who I am as a person just becomes like a very toxic hard way to live life and also just uh really not rational way of thinking in terms of everybody else in this sport or whatever you’re passion about is working just as hard and a lot of things have the stars have to align and there’s a lot of good people out there um so for me like being humble is just respecting you know running and and respecting that like we’re not the only ones trying to win and we’re not the only ones working hard and we’re not the only good people in the world and and to grow a community and to grow the sport we like we have to be in this together um and I always make sure like our athletes know that I’m G to be okay regardless of the result um and and honestly it’s just fun to see people like attack the journey um and do whatever it takes to accomplish their goals at such a young age and and to see it like grow in college and beyond that so like honestly like humility to me is just like respect like respect for other people that are doing the same thing that we’re all doing like we love this sport we want to give back to this Sport and you’re not going to win at all and uh you got to love the sport when you go to bed at night and you got to want to do it the next day so like to constantly validate yourself based off a result is just it’s not healthy I want to dive into your background in sport a little bit something I found so fascinating uh in doing research my team doing research one of the things that stuck out to me in the notes was uh you found your way to coaching after transitioning from a career in construction management that might be a first on the podcast can you fill that out a little bit for me yeah so I went to I went to college at Western State Colorado University in gunis and like a lot of people um I got a major in psychology and sociology uh in criminal justice and um and uh law enforcement like thinking that I was maybe going to go into that career path uh not really having like the maturity or the emotional uh maturity to understand that that you can’t make money in that industry so the first three months four months out of college I was looking for jobs couldn’t find anything and everything that I could get was like mid $20,000 couldn’t pay the lease type of situation and my brother’s best friend work for a construction company um so he ended up offering me a job just basically as a secretary and like within a month I got moved up to a project engineer and within six months I got moved into project management um and all of a sudden found myself managing 20 plus million dollars a year in construction a year year and a half after I graduated college doing uh light civil work in sports Field construction and um honestly like at that point in my life I was just chasing what I thought people do you know like get a good job buy a house buy a truck uh fit in like all these material things were really like guiding uh who I was becoming as a person um and then I just found myself stuck not really happy with with the people I was working with and not having value uh in what I was doing um and so after nine years of of doing construction management I just kind of took a step back uh reached out to the people I love in my life so my brother Micah my brother Chris my brother Andrew and my parents uh over half of them are teachers and uh I took five years away from running didn’t run a step after college and and really they just encouraged me to get back into running go volunteer at a school coach see what happens and I fell immediately back in love with who I was as a person and wanted to give back to the community that’s like really did so much for me so after volunteering I I for one season I applied for grad school uh for School counseling and then spent two years in grad school and started coaching and have been doing it ever since so for 15 years now I go back to that version of you in construction management I say you know you’re one day going to coach individual National Champion Team National Champion what would the the look be on your face what would the words come out of your mouth first words come out of your mouth be so when I was in construction yeah if I went back to that no that that’s part of my previous life that’s that’s not going to happen like I’m done I’m done running like I’ll never be involved with it again uh I weigh 40 pounds heavier than I did in college I haven’t ran in five years so there’s no way that would happen I wouldn’t believe you yeah no way what valuable things do you feel like you learned during that time period specifically I hear the word management and can relate that to coaching pretty easily what do you think you learned during those years that influence how you coach presently I think just the it’s overwhelming at times I think when I was in construction I I never had enough time in a day to get everything done um and I had to learn to let things go and I think that that’s same in coaching like um there’s only so many hours in a day you got to learn when to shut it off and when you shut it off you gotta like forget about it till the next day and and honestly I think that correlates to way I coach now because we we put a limit on our practices and if we don’t get everything done like 5:30 like the the end of shift Bell Rings like we’re done like we we maybe only got halfway through a workout or three quarters away through a workout because there was a lightning delay um just got to be respectful of when to shut it off so I think just like not not trying to force things just kind of roll with things and uh when it’s time to quit it’s time to quit so it’s fascinating me in the sense of I could I and I love this conversation for this reason this is why I love conversations is cuz you you pull back the the real version of someone and you can see a result on paper and assume things about someone that aren’t true but I think a lot of stereotypes in culture about Champions and champions mentality like let’s use the lightning strike example that happens and and you’re going to tell the kids you know text your parents we’re we’re going to be out here all night The Once a runner kind of mentality we’re going to be out here until we get the work done well you know turn the flashlight on your phone we’re getting it done because we want to be national champs and like that kind of like hell yeah attitude I think it’s like definitely inherent to like the American kind of spirit and maybe more of our parents generation but I’m fascinated by that kind of like cool as a cucumber like very in and I know you know Jay Johnson he said this like you know your athletes will replicate You For Better or Worse and I’m sure that’s definitely been the case with you and your athletes where if you’re stressing that the workout wasn’t enough they’re going to internalize that but if you’re like no this was enough today go home we’ll see I practice tomorrow that’s also going to you know rub off on the athletes so can you elaborate more on um I guess the the cool nature of yourself and and why you feel like you don’t need to to press into things too much specifically in the era of of high school distance running maybe you can talk to this as well where you go to nxn and I’m sure you know this about a lot of the teams like they are some of these programs are rigid like doubles at 5:00 a.m. before school like XYZ you name it um and it’s really cool to hear a refreshing perspective on other side yeah uh well I’ll just start by saying I screwed it up a lot you know like I I was rigid at first and and I didn’t think of the human nature uh behind the runner uh and who they were and and how how is this week or this workout or this double or this Sunday Run gonna affect their relationship with running later in life like that never even crossed my mind um and those early when I was at Palmer Ridge and even like my first year or two at nyatt uh I had a lot of kids get scholarships and quit like one to two years into running um and it became a pattern uh so I I like started to at first it was like oh their their college program and Coach just maybe isn’t as good uh they don’t provide the culture or the fun or the opportunities or they don’t know how to train them and then I just eventually had to look in the mirror and and ask myself like what am I doing differently because it also came at a point in life where like I W I was working on myself you know like I was burning myself out and I didn’t have balance and like honestly there there’s only so much you can do in anything in life before you you really start to dimin like the returns diminish and it’s not enjoyable as much as it once was and I definitely was asking too much out of the kids right like I I wouldn’t think twice to ask somebody to run long on Sunday is in my early years because that’s just what you do right it’s like church of this long run on Sunday um and and the kids got results but also they just like burnt out of running and they didn’t like it and the relationship with running was was really terrible until like they turned 30 31 and then they started doing it again so that pattern like I was pretty embarrassed and and like ashamed of and um took a step back and realize like what this generation is and and where I live and the community I live in in Boulder and the culture here is going to be different everywhere I think if I was somewhere else it might be different but I took the we’re not going to run on Sundays um kids need sleep we’re not going to double um uh when kids want time off they need to know that they can ask for it and I need to be aware that like there there is a diminishing return and when a kid or any athlete like all of a sudden is deficient in energy or all of a sudden feels like they’ve been working too hard and feels like they’re missing out on life you know you know they get a little fomo of other things uh they’re not going to like running anymore so uh for me it was more of let’s prioritize sleep let’s prioritize the other parts of your life um and let’s just make sure you you love running and and you know none of our kids once the season started um like none of them did doubles none of them ran Sunday um if they wanted to do something they know that they they could ask but uh you know in the summer our boys team did three doubles right two weeks before the school year started because like they wanted that like yeah let’s see what it’s like and it was cool and we had time and then as soon as school started I was like so what do you guys think like are you guys going to get to bed before 11: p.m. 12: p.m. are you gonna get eight to nine hours of sleep and the on the boys side they just roll their eyes and start laughing and they’re like no coach there’s no way if we if we have to wake up at 6:00 amm we’re not going to get eight nine hours of sleep so uh for me it was like okay we’re going to sleep like we’re not going to double they’re going to love their life they’re not going to uh have any dread waking up in the morning and I know like it’s contradictory to like everything that like a lot of things in athletics like you have to make those sacrifices there’s a price to win um but at the same time like is the price to win for a teenager mean they don’t love running in college or don’t become a professional Runner or have a good relationship with the sport so for me it’s like more important to preserve that relationship with running and and again just go back to the autonomy of the athlete and make sure that they’re taking care of themselves how do you coach the two genders differently and specifically speaking on the GU side as I’m uh definitely more equipped to do so with my own experiences as an athlete and and knowing um a lot of the top uh guys in the country also girls but speaking specifically on the guys side like top guys in the country for better for worse everyone’s on social media For Worse um I’ll St and they all know that there are specific boys doing 75 miles a week and doubling most mornings and um doing the most Niche IT band stretches before bed every night and eating broccoli and chicken every every meal um and I think a lot of guys see that and and we’re just so tribal and competitive that we’re like I want that too right so one how do you coach genders differently and two specifically with your guys that are more maybe raah Rah give me more more more more how do you hold them back and and balance that side of them or you know maybe feed into it for a for a specific key session or hard workout where you you let them get after it or maybe if you don’t let me know yeah well I mean this is the first year that our guys out shun like like they did better than our girls you know our girls had won six state titles in a row and they didn’t win this year they had gone to every nxn since 2018 until this year and then all of a sudden our guys finally won a State title last year won again this year and went to nxn and won so it’s like it’s it’s a bit of a transition and um I think it’s healthy it’s it’s fun I think seeing the way both teams react in this situation and support each other um I with with the boys I would say like we have less meaningful uh meetings like I I don’t really have a a set itinerary of things we want to accomplish uh when we meet with our boys because they’re going to take the conversation where they want and it’s going to be a little more fun and and as soon as like they grab onto something into a meeting we’ll just meeting will will lean into it um but but they’re not at least the boys at my school don’t like having a lot of meetings like they just want to get to work and hang out um and I would say even like before nxn for the boys like that meeting we had with them last year and this year like and I can compare it to the girls from last year to to this year is uh it it feels more like a Build-A-Bear Workshop like we we go into this meeting before nxn and I have some things maybe I want to say to them uh but honestly like they’re so excited and making jokes and throwing things at each other it just becomes like here’s your bib let’s put your spikes in your shoes like they just start like getting ready for the race the night before and and they’re loose and and honestly like I I just don’t mess with that like when it when it’s pure joy and they’re playing around like there’s not a message I need to say that might change that um energy whereas the girls really need like that I believe in you uh we love you um I mean the boys do too and and it’s hard to say that like they’re any different because each human’s different and and they all probably want something a little unique but um I’m just always trying to constantly remind our girls that that that they’re not a result and that we’re going to love them no matter what they do uh try to remind them that like have the most fun when they’re at the line uh if you see one of your teammates nervous and you’re nervous maybe just go fake it and crack a joke um so we’re just kind of giving them uh reassurance of of who they are that they’re good enough um and we have more meaning meaningful meetings in terms of like um what what does it look like for for every one of you depending on the day like what’s your role um and I think they just they they get more they’re a little more mature from like having structure so whereas the boys the less structure the better the less meetings the better um just let them throw the football around and be competitive and that might change but currently that’s where we’re at in a little more one-on-one time with the girls than the guys and I just stay out of the guys way right now you mentioned the girls winning six state titles in a row that changing this year and then you know what they’ve done at nxn and and that changing this year not making it how do you coach through disappointment whether it’s things like that or a specific individual athlete not doing what they hoped it it was that’s hard because my my coaching style at least currently uh with believing so much in autonomy and empowerment like I I had a g feeling based on what I was seeing in August it just wasn’t going to happen um and you can’t force it I mean they they were already going down the path they they wanted to go down um that I just kind of knew with how hard the Southwest was going to be even though we were as good as we were before that like we we just weren’t we didn’t have flow we didn’t have chemistry uh we had some injuries and we had some people just miss they just missed a lot of time together um and I I was hopeful like we we were actually in position to advance with like 200 meters to go and and one of our girls completely just hit the wall and started walking sideways and fell over a few times um she gave it her all but I I think whenever whenever they realized they didn’t make it there were a few of them um that had a cathartic moment like they it’s hard to talk about um yeah they they realized like that opportunity is gone and like so when you watch people realize and fail and they break down they cry um and they’re hugging each other I think that’s what that’s what was missing you know like they realize oh this is why we do this we’re not going to let this happen again uh and I didn’t need to go in and say I told you so I didn’t need to try to tell them that they’re messing this season up I just stepped back and and hoped like maybe there was enough there that they could get there based on who we were in the past and even even though like it’s just not sometimes like if we’re if you’re in our region and there’s five teams that are ranked in the top 20 ahead of you um and you took fifth place at the state meet and you got to beat some team from Utah too like you’re just I just kind of like it it just wasn’t happening it wasn’t clicking and uh I think the girls now like they they’ve found purpose again they they love each other they’re training hard um and they they’re on a mission so I just think that like sometimes you get complacent and I don’t think that the girls were complacent I just didn’t don’t think that they know knew why they were doing what they were doing or that they needed to do more so um yeah I think that they they should be back next year how do you handle the internal thoughts that I’m sure you have if that’s an assumption let me know but like that night the week after maybe the weeks after in reflection with yourself just yourself maybe other coaches um on your staff but I’m sure your mind if I was in your shoes you replay what could I have done differently what could I have done better how do you how do you work on that internal battle right as Runners we have it within races I’m sure as a coach you also have it of thinking what could have done better how could I have done more how could I fix this situation um how do you work through all of that and give yourself the grace that you need to move on yeah I mean it is hard I mean if you if you’re passionate about you doing anything it’s like and there’s a failure it’s like how do you fix it right and um yeah I I’m lucky enough to to have people in my life to talk a lot um about things with whether it’s my coaching staff um or my brother uh my brother coaches a team uh just up north and and we talk quite a bit and he’s he’s just getting into like the running and in terms of like what training looks like but he’s just like an incredible person that really understands like what motivates humans and and talking to him about things and the things we can and can’t control helps a bunch um but yeah like there there is this internal dialogue constantly uh and I would say every day that a coach or anyone that’s leading athletes or people like I’m always back and forth in my head about at least one to five athletes and what we could do different and and how do we how do we change like that the potential outcome and um you’re constantly asking yourself those types of questions but at the end of the day like are kids safe are kids happy do they feel valued is way more important than than getting to nxn or way more important than winning a State title and I think for me it’s just going back to the having the one-on-one conversations with those girls and making sure that they know that I love them um and that like we we’ll do it next time so uh yeah there but there’s a lot of internal dialogue on what we could have done different there so you could definitely approach this from a training philosophy perspective but I will be honest there’s a tinge of sadness within me in this conversation when you describe your training and philosophy and all of that because me myself in high school I I just wanted to be great at the support of running and I thought High School is my time to shine um and it one of my phrases was like it it will not be for lack of trying and I I think all of these things were unhealthy for a high schooler to have but my mindset was I want to step on the starting line and know that I turned every Rock in training and there are no doubts that I did every single little thing I could have possibly done to be as prepared as possible I think that’s the type of mindset you want to have maybe as a as a Grant Fisher at milrose not as Dominic Scher as as a sophomore in high school and um I think because I knew how the pros thought and through my studying and research I like kind of learned all those things I put the standards pros and top D1 people have on themsel and put it on myself I think I trained too hard um it just went down the whole host of things my question here for you as someone who’s experienced success with a way more I would say the word is sustainable mindset um maybe just speak to an athlete out there who and this is sometimes a worry of mine with the podcast is is people will hear you know some really gritty individuals talk about their hard training and their mindset and again it’s that it’s that temptation to put a Pros mindset upon yourself without realizing that as a high schooler they were chill they relax that’s how they got to where they are today U but maybe could you give some some air time to a high schooler out there listening of harder is not always better maybe you don’t need to wake up at 5:30 maybe it takes more discipline to do less rather than doing more yeah and this that is hard because like as an athlete you’re you’re driven to win right like we want to win we want to we want to PR we want to do the best we can and that requires a lot of hard work and commitment um and I don’t want I don’t want anyone to think that like we’re not working hard like um we we just try to balance it better than everyone else right like we have two or three really big days a week whether it’s volume or intensity um but we’re really trying to use those other days to like get our sleep um do some easy running um giving our s Grace to like especially in the offseason miss a practice or two um so we’re still checking the box and do doing it I just feel like balance is the most important thing and and we we have the luxury of being at altitude so I I feel like we need sleep over waking up in the morning and doubling and and I don’t know how I would change that if I wasn’t uh coach at altitude but um you you don’t need doubles to win um you don’t need a long long run every Sunday to win um you really just have to have joy and balance in the sport and and know that like two or three days a week uh stacked on months on years like you’re gonna get there right and you can’t force breakthroughs and uh be patient and kind to yourself and uh focus on other Parts you know if you’re improving and even if you have seasons where you’re not like if you put in the work you’re eventually going to get that breakthrough so um kind of just be kind to yourself be patient you don’t have to run seven days a week you don’t have to double every day um although some people like that’s what you need to do but like honestly just ask yourself how this might affect my relationship with this sport in five to 10 years and is this sustainable um when I have six AP IB classes and I’m trying to do what other people are doing and you don’t know what’s going on in their life is just it’s irrational to think that like everybody has the exact same academic load everybody has the same home life that everybody has the same uh social life um and has the same emotional um maturity at this age when we’re all over the place and if your identity is just to be the one that outworks everyone you’re burning the wick on both ends and and it’s going to burn out like that is what what people call it that for you know like and then you have to find a way to to find that love again but you’re not a result be patient um do what you feel like you need to do but make sure you have balance in life like go on a vacation it’s okay to take three to five days off more than twice a year um like if you put in a solid 10 to 12 weeks of training like or even six to eight like you can take three four days off whenever you feel like you need it like you’re breaking your body down and you’re going to break your mind down just like eat the cookie take a three-day weekend and have fun yeah it’s a yeah I mean I feel like I’m getting hit by a train right now I mean I know all these things but like even for me in high school I I’ll share another thing like so I have two older brothers three older sisters a big family youngest of six but my brother’s like around holidays when we’d all get together I’m sure you know the game spikeball maybe from some of your kids but like I wouldn’t play spike ball wouldn’t play pickup basketball because I was like scared of getting injured or being sore for my work out and I look back on that I’m just like you were you were an idiot dude like you weren’t that good first of all you weren’t that good you weren’t good enough to really have that mindset you weren’t trying to break four minutes in the mile and and two it’s like I missed out on those on those valuable experiences and moments with with my family or even things like you know um not saying you shouldn’t run on holidays but things like that where I feel like I would I would just skip out on important family or friends sort of situations um maybe in another time line God raised me in Boulder and you were my coach and and I uh approach things in a better perspective but maybe speak to to younger version of Dominic or which is a listener out there like go play pickle ball with your friends it doesn’t matter if you’re sure for your workout like you’re not that good you’re you’re not good enough to be you’re not a least cranny if you’re at leaste cranny maybe don’t play pickle ball but you’re not right well at least cranny swam in high school and and she had other things that like kept her grounded but um yeah honestly like I I would say our top finisher at nxn this year on the GU side Hunter um and we had a different top guy throughout the season like I don’t like we I don’t think any one of our guys felt like um I think they all felt that they could be our number one but hunter had texted me over the weekend like it was a cold Saturday we didn’t have practice uh we had a pretty good week and he said he just sent me a text like hey coach uh I just played two hours of basketball at the rec center and I have an opportunity to go golfing I might only get nine holes but is it all right if I don’t go on my five six mile run today and I’m like absolutely man like you’re gonna do more to your body right um doing two hours of basketball and walking around for two hours uh with a friend um so you don’t need the run right and and like honestly that allowed him to like have he he went with friends that he hadn’t seen that aren’t runners right so when he’s with them playing basketball he’s not talking about running and he’s going golfing he’s not talking about running uh and allowed him to like be someone else for for two days and then he came back Monday and crushed crushed the workout like felt great we did a big one um and he got plenty of different types of physical activity you know um that was that’s probably better uh physically and mentally for longevity but um yeah I think that like the CH it’s always cool as a coach to get a CO to get an athlete like you Dom and um and try to pull the reins back right like it’s much more I have a freshman right now that like he is constantly sneaking in extra reps and workouts and like we were doing thousand meter repeats this week and we’re like no you only get to do 800 and you’re not doing all of them like we’re gonna go every other one and he’s just like you look over and he’s like in the workout running the full K and like has a hat on that he wasn’t wearing like three reps before and like you have to bust him in it and he just doesn’t get it right now but I I think that like with kid with athletes like that I think it’s it’s honestly like you need you need good mentors in your life too like you want to preserve that like put it like all that desire will be there later if you just kind of table it right and and focus on other things and if it’s Christmas morning and you feel like you need to go on a six mile run and you’re going to skip out on something with your family like you don’t need you need that run like you really don’t that six mile run will be there later in your running career and and it’s going to be your relationship with running is going to be so much better if you just don’t feel like you need to do it all um and I think that you do need people in your life that that reinforce that right and and I think with social media like you said um the algorithms are going to feed you what you want to hear right like and there is another side to it and and you just got to find balance but you can’t be in a world of comparison like you’re there’s always going to be someone out there on some given day that did more than you like you can’t keep up with everybody and you shouldn’t try to um because if you’re happy and you’re resting and you’re recovered you’re you’re going to perform and you can’t rush it like this this sport takes quite a bit of time to reach your potential and to to think that while you’re going through puberty and um all these changes in your life and all the stress in your life that you’re going to run your best like is irrational um so just be patient I don’t want to brush over the nxn win I know I mentioned it but take me through that day that special day at clend golf course not only did your boys win for the first time in school history but I want to say they scored 70 points um which is a remarkably low score for those who have followed nxn history obviously a classic nxn day wet rainy muddy the whole nine yards take me through the emotion throughout the race when you feel like you had the win in the bag and then kind of the aftermath celebrating with the guys who you work with year round the the whole season the these boys like just had fun and there competitive and and the depth we had in the depth that was at home I think we had like 17 or 18 boys break 16 for 5K this year and um we had 15 seniors and only two seniors were on that team so just like the all the support they had like in workouts at meets like um that’ll be unmatched like I I’m not expecting that to ever happen again in my career with how many like it’s just hard to have 15 to 20 seniors uh show up for four years um whenever it’s all of a sudden like they’re not the top Runner and uh there’s other things going on in their life but um they won’t have that Supporting Cast so I knew like they felt supported I knew that they had everything going into it that they needed to to run well and they were very relaxed um there’s still like finding a football to throw to each other uh during the warm-ups in the nxn tent and um playing brawl stars and like bickering at each other they’re not even talking about the race you know um but they had that ability once it was time to warm up to flip the switch and and get in the zone so uh yeah it was raining it was cold uh we were one of the one of the first teams to be introduced and and I think I knew uh after they were introduced and we were walking down to the starting line just like how how present they were with like the opportunity that they that they had in front of them um there was no stress there was no pressure it was more like this is fun this is cool uh you know Rocco was having a rough a rough last end of his season um and he had just mentioned you know as we were walking down there like guys regardless of how we’re gonna perform today like we don’t get this opportunity together ever again um and for for a teenager to say something like that and just tell him like let’s just have fun uh let’s compete um and whatever just like appreciate what we’re going to go do uh and we got down to the the starting line as one of the first teams and it it was pretty cold um but they were just loose you know they were uh they were just doing all the right things they were like looking around and seeing their competitors and and and kind of like reading their body language and and they were still just making jokes so I knew at that point that they were going to run well right like I’ve as many times as our teams have been to nxn and as many times as I’ve watched the broadcast it’s uh it it’s irrational and unrealistic to think you’re going to win that thing um so for me it’s just like you know if we win that’s great but like it’s not expected like we didn’t expect to win like we believed we could win but there’s just so many great programs out there that have great athletes and great coaches um but I had a pretty good feeling that like we’re getting on the podium probably based on the energy they had and and the conversations they were having how ready they were um even though one of our top boys had the stomach flu and was puking uh the day before and one of our top Runners just hadn’t had a good last four to six weeks so two of our top five Runners didn’t even score for us um I just kind of knew how they got out and the way they attacked the middle of the course that we had a chance so I mean the first 2K we were about where we wanted to be um we like to we like to get out a little hard and put oursel in position but not not spend every everything and make sure that we have a better second half of the race but they got in position and then when they came out um of that back loop from 2K to 3K and and went into first place and I saw that the lead they had and how how they looked like how their body language was uh they were engaged they were having fun uh they found each other at one point uh three of them you know at 3K we’re running shoulder-to-shoulder together and in a race like that that’s pretty hard to do um and and honestly when you’re a coach and you can just say like you’re doing it we’re winning like I think that just takes over for the athlete like they just all of a sudden they’re just like whoa like we’re we’re just gonna go run hard for the next six minutes and uh try to make sure no one Catches Us so um I was about a thousand meters out from the Finish Line um I’m usually someone that’s 800 to a th000 meters from Finish Line I’m not one of the like most people are at the Finish Line watching Everybody finish and kick I’m I’m where I think the athletes need me uh for one last word of encouragement um some sort of guidance and it was downpouring raining my phone really wasn’t working uh and there was this tree um so I went under the tree and I had to like dry off my phone pull up the live stream pull up the results uh and like they all of a sudden I just see all five get in before other teams for was in and the score posted I’m just I’m just going to sit here for like five 10 minutes because that score can change um so I just sat there uh under a tree by myself and like as 10 minutes went by I’m like I can’t believe we just won like uh it finally came to me that like holy cow like like something that really like I didn’t think would ever happen happened uh and those boys just ran so hard for each other and and I just took a minute to like appreciate the sport appreciate everyone in my life uh and then I joged to the finish line and they had all the athletes that were on the podium in a tent and we couldn’t get in there uh and and when we finally could get in there like me and my other coach coach Bloom who was um in the staging area we didn’t want to like go into the tent while there’s three teams in there shivering and like our team was the winner we didn’t want to like go in there and start jumping up and down and screaming when two of the greatest programs American Fork and Herman are also in there so I was like hey let’s just wait till they’re out of there and like be respectful and then as soon as those teams got put on the podium We snuck into the tent and made eye contact with all the boys and we just started screaming like girls at a Taylor Swift concert and jumping up and down and uh had that moment and I’ll always remember that um but yeah it it was it was something again that like I didn’t think was going to happen like I believe that maybe it could so like the fact that it did is is pretty cool and that the kids did it their way and and we didn’t do it the way a lot of teams like feel like they have to you know we’re not a team that wakes up at 5:00 am to do a ShakeOut run um before the national meet and there’s half the programs there that like when you wake up they are and there’s nothing wrong with that it’s just not who we wanted to be and and maybe this will never happen again because just not a normal uh normal way to win but I hope it we continue to have success and the kids love running wrapping up this conversation two final serious questions for you first one I know you’re a very reflective guy think on this sort of question I’m sure what do you want your legacy to be when you step away from coaching one day uh I think the Legacy I want man I want I don’t want kids to I don’t want any of my athletes I don’t want to be their best coach honestly but I I I do want them to know how much this sport means to me and how much they all mean to me um and I also want them to know that like there’s a place here there’s a community here at nyatt uh where the doors always open and that like we’re bringing the we’re trying to bring the running Community together because it’s a very competitive Community um and and a lot of other sports I feel like sometimes do better in terms of like getting along and and they have a healthy club scene and um healthy offseason scene and I think like for me it’s more of like people know at nwat that you can come here at any point during the day jump on our track whether you’re like an 80-year-old wanting to walk in Lane one or you’re an Olympian um and that we love running here and that like there’s a place you belong and um that this sport is pretty cool and and that like like coach Kelly helped bring a community together and that it doesn’t have to be on your own and that life needs people with similar um with like-minded views and similar passions and goals and hopefully I’m known as someone that uh brought people together and made the sport better final serious question for you coach um very simple I’ve asked a lot of coaches this question throughout the years and I’ll ask it to you pose it to you what does it take to be great at the sport of distance running uh it definitely takes a healthy long-term relationship with it um I mean the longer you can exist in this sport the better you’re going to get and uh it it’s a Relentless belief in yourself um and that that’s something I think in human nature that’s really really hard but um you have to keep showing up it’s not just going to happen in a year uh you have to have more patience than you can even consider right now like it’s not going to be one year not going to be three years it could be 10 to 15 years and the only way to sustain that is to make sure you’re taking care of yourself so I think um you have to be passionate you have to believe in yourself you have to keep showing up and you do have to work hard um but you also just make sure you got to take care of yourself and surround yourself with people that believe in you and surround yourself with people that are also going places people that are positive and um anyone that’s negative and doesn’t believe in you like get them out of your life love it so true coach Kelly final question for the question I ask every single guest on every single episode if you had Gordon Ramsey coming over to your house for dinner what would you choose to make for him oh man this is tough uh my girlfriend um she’s vegetarian so like I I’m not a vegetarian so for the last two years though I’ve been vegetarian with her what would I make for Gordon Ramsay um man my go-to like honestly this this is terrible but um I I’ve started taking cocktail classes and I’m like a little bougie um in terms of like I don’t drink a lot of beer I don’t drink a lot but like I like I’m Mixology and and Bess uh fascinate me so like it would probably be uh built around some sort of bougie cocktail um and that would probably be the main thing and I would make my girlfriend make the the meal um I like the angle yeah I would say like I would be more of the like I got the cocktails covered and I’m a terrible cook so um just come over we’ll have some appetizers and enjoy a cocktail or two I like the thinking there that that is a that question can get so repetitive sometimes with people so I always appreciate a thoughtful response where it’s like no one’s ever said that before for so I appreciate it coach I appreciate you and uh you giving me your time and you’re an incredibly busy guy but um you’re an encouragement to me this conversation was inspiring uh enlightening in so many ways and I know it’s going to help people reframe how they view this sport specifically a younger audience and I’m excited to see the impact this one has so you’re Stellar all you do is stellar and uh excited to continue to follow along your work and um nyatt has a new fan in me today you guys gained a new one so appreciate you man yeah I appreciate you too man keep uh keep at it you’re you’re crushing it you’re doing great things um it’s good for the sport it it it’s just refreshing like I I love listening to everything you do so don’t stop don’t let anyone bring you down man keep doing it